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Thread: Tyre selection and YOU

  1. #21

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    Re: Tyre selection and YOU

    [quote][The T1R that Navin uses is also a AA traction, which means it has great traction dry and wet. But of course, the RE01R makes mincemeat of both on dry blacktop!
    /quote]


    Please note the above is incorrect . An A or AA rating has nothing to do with dry traction measurements , it is a measure of the wet coefficient of traction in a straightline at 40mph on asphalt and concrete .It is more of a measurement of the tire compound than tread design .

    It does not measure wet braking , cornering or hydroplaning , and absolutely no test of dry traction .

    Hence an A rated tire can outperform an AA rated tire in the wet , this has been shown by tests done by Tirerack , where out of 10 ratings A tires have scored higher pts in the wet eg dunlop Z1 is an A tire which does better in the wet than the AA dunlop 101.

    So as some of u have pointed out from your own experiences your A rated tire outperforms the AA in the wet . I use Dunlop Z1 and I run them hard in the wet , I mean all out and they have never failed .I wont do the same with a dunlop 101 AA rating or a nexen AA rated tire .

    Dont be fooled in thinking that an AA rated tire will outperform an A rated tire in the wet , it only outperforms it in a straightline with respect to the friction coefficient generated at the tire and the surface .

  2. #22
    TSOC bugeye Mafia Chung's Avatar
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    Re: Tyre selection and YOU

    Quote Originally Posted by oxford
    An A or AA rating has nothing to do with dry traction measurements , it is a measure of the wet coefficient of traction in a straightline at 40mph on asphalt and concrete .It is more of a measurement of the tire compound than tread design .

    It does not measure wet braking , cornering or hydroplaning , and absolutely no test of dry traction .

    Hence an A rated tire can outperform an AA rated tire in the wet , this has been shown by tests done by Tirerack , where out of 10 ratings A tires have scored higher pts in the wet eg dunlop Z1 is an A tire which does better in the wet than the AA dunlop 101.

    So as some of u have pointed out from your own experiences your A rated tire outperforms the AA in the wet . I use Dunlop Z1 and I run them hard in the wet , I mean all out and they have never failed .I wont do the same with a dunlop 101 AA rating or a nexen AA rated tire .

    Dont be fooled in thinking that an AA rated tire will outperform an A rated tire in the wet , it only outperforms it in a straightline with respect to the friction coefficient generated at the tire and the surface .
    excellent info oxford. so this would explain alot.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteGDA
    ^^Mmhmm....so they initial fade-into the corner. Well I'm glad I learnt about this!!

    How'd that offset fit though? Rolled fenders? Any rubbing on the front wheels from lock to lock?

    What nwould you recommend for a daily drive? Not the RE01R!!!!
    rubbing? whaz dat? dude, my car is a high lux...rubbing in fenders is the least of my worries. with that rim, the wheel actually clears the fenders at the rear. [about 1cm]
    actually, the re01 r has lasted me a long time, even with dexing them. racking up a year on the two remaining re01 r's i have on my car. [and i even got em foreign used!!!] I am actually surprised that it lasts so long because the treadwear is 180. I actually like the nankang tyres, and the normal kumho tyres.[can't remember what was the name of them]

    and all my comparisons were made on the road, not dex...
    Cheap and fast won't be reliable. Cheap and reliable won't be fast. Reliable and fast won't be cheap.

  3. #23
    Senior Member GDA's Avatar
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    Re: Tyre selection and YOU

    An A or AA rating has nothing to do with dry traction measurements , it is a measure of the wet coefficient of traction in a straightline at 40mph on asphalt and concrete .It is more of a measurement of the tire compound than tread design .

    It does not measure wet braking , cornering or hydroplaning , and absolutely no test of dry traction .



    .


    Point noted duly noted brian. Thanks for the clarification there! I guess part of my confusion (and assumption within) with the ratings was based on the fact that I compared my Swift Sport's SportMaxx-A (which is a single A traction), to an Ignis Sport running Sport Maxx (the standard one with AA traction)...and the butt-dyno felt like the latter was less squeamish in the wet!!!!


    Hence an A rated tire can outperform an AA rated tire in the wet , this has been shown by tests done by Tirerack , where out of 10 ratings A tires have scored higher pts in the wet eg dunlop Z1 is an A tire which does better in the wet than the AA dunlop 101.
    Hmmmm...good points there 'doc. But there's one thing you should note.......both the DZ101 and the Sport Z1 dunlops have SINGLE A TRACTION. The DZ101 does not have AA traction.

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp? ... ageLocQty=

    So let me pose a scenario here for you:
    Dunlop DZ101 - 300 tread A traction
    Dunlop Sport Z1 - 200 tread?? A traction
    Toyo Proxes T1R - 280 tread AA traction
    Toyo NP01 / J50 (Tiida / corolla tyre) - 220 tread A traction


    How do we know just by looking at a tyre's ratings....as to how it performs? All the above tyres (except Toyo) have the same traction ratings...so that's out. The NP01 is a lower treadwear than the DZ101....and yet it sure as hell handles like a brick (or in other words, even the N3000 could handle better than that)....and yes...the DZ101 I imagine is a better tyre than the OE Np01 / J50.

    I used the J50's on my old AD wagon before switching to the DZ101's.....the J50's were soft and comfy to ride on....but washed out easy and squealed alot iif driving in a hurry. The DZ101's weren't as bad...yet these tyres are harder!

    The Proxes T1R is softer tread, and AA traction vs. the DZ101, and from what I've heard, it should handle alot better than the DZ101....so we have a AA traction outperforming a A traction. But the Sport Z1 outperforms the T1R!!! So now we have an A traction outperforming an AA traction tyre!!!

    Now I'm honestly confused

    Can you shed any light here oxford?
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  4. #24
    Full Traction Auto inevitablegreyfox's Avatar
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    Re: Tyre selection and YOU

    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteGDA
    ^^Mmhmm....so they initial fade-into the corner. Well I'm glad I learnt about this!!

    How'd that offset fit though? Rolled fenders? Any rubbing on the front wheels from lock to lock?

    What nwould you recommend for a daily drive? Not the RE01R!!!!


    the dunlop sp ones are crap! wheel spin like crazy ! and after a 300km run they dead...what's the best you guys would recommend for ultimate stickiness in wet and dry? so far for me the kuhmos run the best so far as i have never ventured further, but is there anything better?
    I would say Potenza S-03/S-02/RE050. You can ask havokk about the S-02's...and I'm sure he'll share my same sentiments! I like how my dad's Legacy feels on the wet....and that's on RE050's. Not nearly as much power as the WRX, but it rides REALLY good, low noise, good dry grip, and nice-ish (but not the best) wet grip.
    And the RE050 is the stock tyre on some Ferraris

    BTW.....Which Kumho was this (model). Ecsta 711? Ecsta Supra etc?

    Kumho Ecsta, GDA those work really well and no noise, well minimum noise. not sure if it's the 711 though. but if i get my hands on some run flats hehehehe

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    Re: Tyre selection and YOU

    Well Arvind , it can get confusing , . Independent tests done by tirerack places wet traction on the DZ101 as 5.28/10 for A rated tire, and gave the Z1 a 7.16/10 for a A rated tire.

    How to choose depends a lot on driving style and where u do most of your driving . For Dex u want a competition tire , excellent dry traction , and good wet traction . For highway driving u want a quiet tire , and relatively long tread wear , but if u do a lot of spirited driving , cornering , hard braking u want a good compromise between tread wear and good wet traction tire , remember the A rating does not take into consideration cornering etc .If u do heavy traffic driving I would choose a AA rated tire for straightline stopping in the wet .

    I tend to look at Independent reviews by tirerack and other companies who spend the time and money to make life easier for us . I had choosen the Dunlop Z1 for apprrox 5/5 dry traction and 4/5 wet traction not decided by the treadwear or A rating but what was actually tested .

    In the final analysis , look at the value of your car , cheap tires with no good dry or wet traction can lead to accidents , look at what type of driving style u have and where u drive , highway or lots of corners or traffic , also weather conditions . Wet traction requires u have a good depth treading to move water away to prevent hydroplaning because u cant compress water.

    Read reviews and tests these are the most helpful , unfortunately u cant judge a tire only by treadwear and A rating , they only tell part of the story . They say little about compound type , comfort , sidewall strength , tire noise etc . TEsted Reviews are the answer !

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    Senior Member GDA's Avatar
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    Re: Tyre selection and YOU

    ^^
    If u do heavy traffic driving I would choose a AA rated tire for straightline stopping in the wet .
    Which was my point (which I think you missed) early on. For a daily running car, a UHPS/MPS tyre with a AA traction rating, like what Navin uses, is perhaps BETTER suited than an R-compound...also coupled with the factor of wear resistance/longevity.


    Kumho Ecsta, GDA those work really well and no noise, well minimum noise. not sure if it's the 711 though. but if i get my hands on some run flats hehehehe
    Nah bro......which model is the key! There are lots of Ecstas out there. Sure yuh can't recall?

    AST maybe? MX?
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  7. #27

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    Re: Tyre selection and YOU

    The best daily drive tires are the Potenza S-03 gets 7.9 wet and 8.1 dry , also the Michelin Pilot zeros both tires treadwear 220 and AA rated .

  8. #28
    Full Traction Auto inevitablegreyfox's Avatar
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    Re: Tyre selection and YOU

    awh man i traded those off when they were dying...i will check my pix. maybe i had some shots of it...

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    Re: Tyre selection and YOU

    Forgot to mention, doc, but you're basing your reviews on ONE site alone.

    Now admittedly, Tirerack.com IS one of the authorities in tyres in the US, there are many other good sites out there as well.

    Take a look at 1010tires.com.......and you'd see that their site paints quite the different tale for the same Sport Z1's.....in that it was average wet traction, with more AA tyres surpassing it in this category (as I alluded to early on).

    The T1R got high marks in the wet http://www.1010tires.com/tire.asp?tirebrand=Toyo&tiremodel=Proxes+T1R

    The RE01R got lesshttp://www.1010tires.com/tire.asp?tirebrand=Bridgestone&tiremodel=Potenza+R E%2D01R

    And the SPort Z1 fell at the bottom of the list in the wet:
    http://www.1010tires.com/tire.asp?tireb ... +Star+Spec

    So you see....it's all subjective

    Any yes, although Tire rack does their own independent testing (which is a good thing!), the score cards and overall rankings (yeah in the yellow/green table on tire rack), often tally up the average of customer review points...just like some of these other sites.
    Zerosports | Perrin | GodSpeed | SunLine Racing | SPT | McGard | ATE | Centric

  10. #30
    Full Traction Auto inevitablegreyfox's Avatar
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    Re: Tyre selection and YOU

    awh man i lied the stickiest i have felt so far are the falkens, man launching with these are great! no wheel spin, and cornering is great! i forgot i had these!






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